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What Jews Believe: One Cannot Die For The Sins Of Another
I have been trying to understand why it is exactly that those who practice Judaism refuse to consider that the Messiah has come already in the person of Jesus, the Son of GOD born to Mary.
I punched in the phrase “what Jews believe” on Google and the first response was from a Web site of that very same name, WhatJewsBelieve.org. The site lists 9 reasons, plus one on the ‘Jewish roots’ of Christianity. The first item listed of what Jews believe is ‘one person cannot die for the sins of another.’ Here is their short explanation:
The Bible is clear, and it is consistent. One person cannot die for the sins of another. This means that the guilt from the sins committed by one person cannot be wiped out by the punishment given to another person. First, in Exodus 32:30-35, Moses asks God to punish him for the sin of the Golden Calf, committed by the people. God tells Moses that the person who committed the sin is the person who must receive the punishment. Then, in Deuteronomy 24:16, God simply states this as a basic principle, “Every man shall be put to death for his own sins.” This concept is repeated in the Prophets, in Ezekiel 18 “The soul that sinneth, it shall die… the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.”
They are, of course, referring to the Christian belief that Jesus was the ’sacrificial lamb’ who allows atonement or salvation for sinners. The explanation given is heavily focused on Bible verses that explain every single person must bear the weight of their own sin - that is, each person must be punished for their own sin. GOD would not make someone else bear the punishment for another person’s guilt. That makes sense, but it appears that the authors of WhatJewsBelieve.org are skipping over some other Bible passages that address the subject and say something else entirely, so I have some questions.
One Person Can Die For The Sins Of Another Person
In Exodus 34:5-7, we read that the LORD visits Moses after Moses pleads to ‘behold (HIS) presence.’ The LORD grants his request and, if I am not mistaken, makes the following proclamation about HIMSELF.
The LORD came down in a cloud; He stood with him there, and proclaimed the name LORD. The LORD passed before him and proclaimed: “The LORD! the LORD! a God compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, abounding in kindness and faithfulness, extending kindness to the thousandth generation, forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin; yet He does not remit all punishment, but visits the iniquity of parents upon children and children’s children, upon the third and fourth generations.”
My first question is, if Jews believe, as stated on the given Web site, that the one who commits the sin is the one that is punished by GOD, then what of that statement above the LORD makes of HIMSELF? “He…visits the iniquity of parents upon children and children’s children…” If I am not mistaken, the term iniquity refers to unrighteous, or sinful, behavior. In this passage of Exodus, is GOD saying HE punishes children for the sins of their parents…even down to the children of the third and fourth generations?
In the following Bible excerpt (Leveticus 26:39-40), it appears the children of Israel are being told to make atonement for their fathers’ sins and hostility against GOD (which were many during the Exodus and even beyond) or the punishment upon them (concerning the land) will be great:
Those of you who survive shall be heartsick over their iniquity in the land of your enemies; more, they shall be heartsick over the iniquities of their fathers; and they shall confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers, in that they trespassed against Me, yeah, were hostile to Me.
Why would God ask the children to confess the sins of their fathers if the ALMIGHTY is not holding them accountable for their fathers’ sins as well as their own?
Another interesting example is God’s declaration against the priest Eli and his entire blood line - a curse that came about because Eli’s two sons, who also served in the priesthood, corrupted the laws for selfish gain. In 1 Samuel 2:27-36 (excerpted here):
…Thus said the LORD: Lo, I revealed Myself to your father’s house in Egypt when they were subject to the House of Pharaoh, and I chose them from among all the tribes of Israel to be My priests…and I assigned to your father’s house all offerings by fire of the Israelites. Why, then, do you maliciously trample upon the sacrifices and offerings that I have commanded? You have honored your sons more than Me, feeding on the first portions of every offering of My people Israel. … A time is coming when I will break your power and that of your father’s house, and there shall be no elder in your house. … there shall never be an elder in your house. I shall not cut off all your offspring from My alter; [but]…all the increase in your should shall die as [ordinary] men… And all the survivors of your house shall come and bow low to him (God’s new priest)…
The idea that ‘one cannot die for the sins of another’ appears to be a misconception. If one also looks to the plagues of Egypt, didn’t all of the Egyptians suffer because of the Pharaoh’s hard heart and disobedience? Did Noah not curse (or punish) Ham’s son for something it appears that Ham himself had done (debatable, I know)? While I am saying that, yes, one can bear the punishment for another’s sin, I am in no means saying that the transgressor will not die for his own sins.
Christians believe, as do Jews, I think, that each man will pay the consequence (death) for not repenting and turning to God. Though many may have to bear the punishment because of one person’s sin or guilt, it does not mean that the individual does not suffer personally for his/her actions.
When Christians say Jesus died for our sins, that by no means should be interpreted to mean Christians think they have a free pass of some kind and are not in danger of God’s judgment.
WhatJewsBelieve.org states ‘Jesus cannot die for your sins.’ The above leads me to believe that, if others can suffer because of another person’s sin, then one can make atonement for other’s sins (though the individual transgressors are still held accountable). But why would Jesus ‘need’ to make atonement for man’s sins?
The Sinfulness Stubbornness Of The People
God brought the people out of Egyptian slavery, He fed them with food from heaven and quenched their thirst with water sprung forth from rocks. Yet the people still rebelled, grumbled and behaved disrespectfully towards God. Many times the LORD wanted to destroy them because of this behavior, but Moses interceded and begged that He spare their life for the sake of His own glory. Still, the people sinned as if they did not know GOD. He gave them laws on tablets that they could behold so that they would be reminded as to how to conduct themselves. These tablets were placed in the Ark of the Covenant, which remained before them also as a visual reminder.
The LORD led them through the desert as a cloud during the day and as a pillar of fire during the night — more visual reminders. Still, they sinned as if they did no know God. At one point, God instructed them to wear tassels at the edge of their garments so that they would always have (another) visual reminder before them, so, seeing the tassels, they would be reminded Whom they served and the covenant they made with Him. Still, they sinned (Exodus 32 and Numbers 14).
No matter how many laws the people received, they still transgressed. But they abided by the laws — in name only. They began to put more emphasis on doing the laws than the One who gave them the laws — as if doing the laws alone would save them. One must put one’s faith, hope and belief in God; the laws are not God, for it is not the law that saves you - but the sincerity of your soul in serving your God.
As Isaiah 29:13 states: My LORD said: Because that people has approached [Me] with its mouth and honored Me with its lips, But has kept its heart far from Me, And its worship of Me has been a commandment of men, learned by rote (definition: memorization by repetition) — truly, I shall further baffle that people with bafflement upon bafflement; and the wisdom of its wise shall fail, and the prudence of its prudent shall vanish.
The people needed one more visual reminder. Something that could definitely not be ignored or ever forgotten. This one would go down in the history books, as they say, and the whole world would know of it. It would be a source of contention between father and son, mother and daughter and husbands and wives. It would be so stunning that entire families would be ripped apart and enemies would be made.
As the priest Eli said to his own sinful sons in 1 Samuel 2:25: If a man sins against a man, the LORD may pardon him; but if a man offends against God, who can obtain pardon for him?
If We Sin Against God, Who Can Obtain Pardon For Us?
The answer to that question is revealed in the book of Isaiah, chapter 53. Here is an excerpt (notice the way in which it is written, as if the one reading it need be reminded of something):
Indeed, My servant shall prosper, be exalted and raised to great heights. Just as the many were appalled at him- …just so he shall startle many nations. …He had no form or beauty, that we should look at him; no charm, that we should find him pleasing. He was despised, shunned by men… He was despised, we held him of no account. Yet it was our sickness that he was bearing, our suffering that he endured. We accounted him plagued, smitten and afflicted by God; But he was wounded because of our sins, crushed because of our iniquities. He bore the chastisement that made us whole, and by his bruises we were healed. We all went astray like sheep, each going his own way; and the LORD visited upon him the guilt of us all.
..For he was cut off from the land of the living through the sin of the people, who deserved the punishment. ...But the LORD chose to crush him by disease, that, if he made himself an offering of guilt, he might see offspring and have long life, and that through him the LORD’s purpose might prosper. …My righteous servant makes the many righteous, it is their punishment that he bears; Assuredly, I will give him the many as his portion, he shall receive the multitude as his spoil. For he exposed himself to death and was numbered among the sinners, whereas he bore the guilt of many and made intercession for sinners.
This passage in Isaiah (if not the book as a whole) speaks of a particular person, whom God calls ‘My servant,’ ‘My righteous servant.’ This writing isn’t allegory or poetry. God directed Isaiah to write about a real man whom he would send to redeem His people, who had gone so astray.
Whether or not you believe Jesus is this man, it is quite clear that God says, through Isaiah, someone can bear “the guilt of many and make intercession for sinners,” “make many righteous (by bearing) their punishment” and bare “the chastisement (that makes) us whole.” But it is clear in Isaiah that God Almighty is speaking of one particular person who can redeem not just a few people, but all sinners, by laying down his life for them. But this man doesn’t just die as some sacrificial lamb for the greater good, his sacrifice involves being ostracized, reviled, spit upon, mocked, beaten - although his burden is to offer man salvation, man hates him for what he does and says. He attempts to teach them about the law. The aren’t receptive. After all, who can teach them about the law when they are the law and received it from God’s own mouth and hands?
How can you say, “We are wise, and we possess the Instruction of the LORD”? Assuredly, for naught has the pen labored, for naught the scribes! The wise shall be put to shame, shall be dismayed and caught; See, they reject the word of the LORD, so their wisdom amounts to nothing. (Jeremiah 8:8-9)
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I came here from DovBear.
Jews do not accept Jesus as the moshiach because he did not fulfill the conditions of the prophecies. Moshiach will be a great military and political leader, and, most importantly, will make no claims of divinity or partial divinity. He will be completely human. There is plenty of information available to you about this topic on Jewish websites. For starters you can read more here: http://www.jewfaq.org/moshiach.htm
I have been trying to understand why it is exactly that those who practice Judaism refuse to consider that the Messiah has come already in the person of Jesus, the Son of GOD born to Mary.
The question is why do Christians believe such nonsense? Oh, I forgot, because a book tells you so. Idiots.
CAROL FRIEDMAN:
Thanks for the link, which I will bookmark so I can read through it when I have ample time.
JEREMY:
Christian faith is not as simple as that. If it were, I would walk around repeating everything I read in newspapers and watched on the TV news.
But you plan and put off things for tomorrow, don’t you? Why? What convinces you that you will have another day?
I’m not trying to insult or belittle you. I’m asking a genuine question, and if you come back, I’d like to know your response.
Peace.
There is no proof that he existed and as already stated he didn’t meet the requirements.
No proof that Jesus existed? So the words of Josephus, Tacitus and the Talmud Sanhedrin 43a…yes, which I found listed on Wikipedia, are fakes or inaccurate?
And, may I ask you, sir — what proof do you have that this G_d of yours exists?
If the Christian’s New Testament nor the non-Biblical historical texts can serve as proof for those who say Jesus is the Messiah… what besides the Torah & Talmud do those who follow Judaism point to as proof for the invisible GOD they serve? Who do you know who has seen Him?
[link edited by LaVrai]
Click On Peter’s name or use the link in the Blogroll to visit the ‘Outreach Judaism’ Web site, which addresses many ‘Christian’ arguments related to Judaism.
See my post here The Pope is dead for why Jews do not accept Jesus.
Here is one reason:
One of the main issues is how could Jesus have been the messiah if the messiah on one hand needs to be descended from the House of David and on the other hand Jesus was born of a virgin birth.
One of the fundamental points about the Messiah is that he must be descended from the House of David, and not only from the House of David, but a certain branch of the House of David. This presents great problems for Jesus being the the Messiah as we will see.
Christians believe that Jesus was born of a virgin birth, he had no father. As we all know lineage is paternal we see this clearly in Messiah and the lineage in Luke is not through Solomon.
[edited by LaVrai: please use the link Marty B. gives to understand what he's talking about. It is too long to post here]
Marty’s link: The Pope is dead
Here is another reason why Jews don’t believe in Jesus:
Even Christians are bothered by the fact that Jesus did not fulfill any of the Messianic prophesies therefore they invented the second coming. They also claim that Jesus is the messiah because he performed miracles etc.
The Bible tells us what the Messiah will do. If we read the clearly Messianic prophesies we see that the prophesies focus on 2 points: 1) World Peace (Because the focus of the OT is primarily on the Jews and on Israel, this idea is often expressed by describing the future peaceful conditions in Israel) 2) Recognition of God. Another subset of the prophesies focus on the Messiah himself(in both of the above contexts).
[edited by LaVrai: please use the link Marty B. gives to understand what he's talking about. It is too long to post here]
Marty’s link: The Pope is dead
I am happy for the feedback, as I really do want to understand why those who practice Judaism reject the Christian Jesus.
When I have finished my reading, I’ll post my own reaction to the reactions.
I must say, however, that these comments and links folks have been leaving makes me wonder why Jews believe in GOD. Is it because your Biblical history is reflected in secular history? I’m still trying to understand why you reject Jesus as the Messiah but embrace GOD as who HE says HE is, when there is no case for either — based on how Jesus is disproved as the Messiah.
Is it because it is written down and that you have your traditions that you believe, or is it because GOD really “speaks” to you? Simply, where does your faith lie — in the Torah and Talmud…or in the One whom they speak of?
I mean, I don’t have any hard, ’scientific’ evidence to which I could point to to convince another that their GOD does indeed exist. My faith is not based on the Bible, although it is through the Bible that I learn of HIM. But I tell you what — if someone was to find a new ‘bible’ or what have you, my faith would not change…because of the numerous personal experiences and observations. So if I did not have the Bible, it would be impossible for me to stop believing on GOD’s existence.
I hope that makes sense.
Is it so for the followers of Judaism? Would one be ‘lost’ without the Torah and Talmud?
Jewish reluctance to sign on to Christianity isn’t just over whether Jesus was the messiah. I also understand that the Christians believe in something called the Resurrection and that Jesus is considered to be God, or some part of God. One thing that unites all kinds of Jews is that they believe in only one (or less) God, and that God never came to earth in physical form. And the idea that God needs to be killed so that people can get forgiveness for their sins is totally foreign to Jews. We have something called Yom Kippur that works just as well, and only requires that you get a little hungry, and your God is still alive at the end of it.
You didn’t answer any of my claims about why Jews reject Jesus. It is really simple. Basically, it contradicts everything that was said in the OT about who the messiah and what he will do. Please explain to me how Jesus fulfilled the messianic prophecies of world peace for example?
MARTY BLUKE:
Marty, I understand the claims about why Jews don’t believe Jesus is Messiah. I understand that there are SOME prophecies that Jesus did not fulfill while He was alive on this earth. I understand that Jews do not believe Jesus was GOD in any way, shape or form — because you know the verse that says GOD is no man. I understand Jesus was not born of the specific Davidian branch that He supposedly should have been. I understand all of those things.
But, as a Christian I understand a few other things. I believe that GOD does not lie and I believe that He sent Jesus, who shares HIS same Eternal Spirit, among His chosen people to show them the way — which is not all about the law.
As I have been reading (if you’ll look at this post, Marty: http://lavrai.com/blogs/2008/04/06/who-twists-isaiah-53-jews-or-christians/) and reflecting and taking careful note of what the prophets say (I’m currently taking Isaiah at a snail’s pace) and compare them with the interpretations of Judaism (Rabbi Tovia Singer, for example), I find that it seems to me that there is this very great stumbling block.
Please don’t be offended. I am really trying to express my opinions in the best way possible… The thing is, it seems to me, the more I read of Judaism, that folks are focused on the laws and doing this and doing that and traditions traditions traditions.
I remember father Abram…right before he became Abraham. How he worried about these promises the ALMIGHTY had made him…but had neglected to give him an offspring to inherit these promises. But GOD shows him the heavens and tells him his descendants will be so numerous. In Genesis 15:6 It says And because he put his trust in the LORD, He reckoned it to his merit. In the ‘Christian’ translations it says, And he believed in the LORD; and He accounted it to him for righteousness.
GOD counted Abraham as a friend, not because he followed all of the laws or any traditions (for the law of circumcision had not even arrived until a little later after this). If Abraham had died right there and then…or after Isaac was born… he would have been sitting with the Father. Yet Abraham did not have the Torah or Talmud…and GOD considered him righteous.
Now, I am not saying neglecting the law is of any merit… what I am saying is, some Jews came to the understanding that it is not the law that saves the soul — it is one’s faith in the LORD GOD Almighty. The Law is not above the Creator.
No, Jesus has not fulfilled all of these prophecies (yet, in the Christian mind), but some believe that He will return and establish this Kingdom and put a final end to Israel’s enemies — thus, fulfilling the prophecies. For we Christians also believe that the ALMIGHTY cannot lie.
So, in the end, Marty, it is not about the prophecies, for prophecies take time and time to fulfill, it is about believing GOD. What would you do if you did not have the Torah or Talmud as Abraham did not? Would you have let your native country to wander the desert? Would you have taken your impossible first-born up to the sacrificing place and shed his blood for the LORD? Do you have that kind of faith, Marty — or does your strength rest on the writings?
So I am not concerned about proving anything, as you of Judaism are convinced that you have already proven everything. What I am doing is asking questions, so pleas take a look at this link, Marty, and tell me what you think. What would happen if the interpretation actually spoke of a ‘one’ and not of a ‘many.’
http://lavrai.com/blogs/2008/04/06/who-twists-isaiah-53-jews-or-christians/
I hope my response has not disappointed you. I am not looking for some heated debate where one will be wrong and one will be right. I think both Christians and Jews should be asking questions, for they are both GOD’s called…and the only ones who still bother to pay HIM any mind. We don’t need to be joined hand-in-hand, but it would be nice to see eye-to-eye.
Please tell me what prophecies you think Jesus did fulfill. I don’t understand your answer. You agree with me that Jesus does not fulfill the criteria so I don’t understand why you believe
MARTY:
Hi, Marty. I don’t agree with you that Jesus does not fulfill the criteria of Messiah… I said I understand why Judaism followers say He doesn’t. We are seeing things from two different standpoints. You believe Jesus should have fulfilled all of those prophecies the moment He came; as a Christian, I believe He is coming back at a future point, and will fulfill more prophecies this final time around.
It’s not so simple for me to take someone else’s word about what something means or does not mean. I have to read and understand for myself, which is what I have been doing, if you’ve noticed the other posts on this site. I am looking at things (the prophecies) piece by piece, so please be patient. [What Jews Believe: One Cannot Die For The Sins Of Another & Who Twists Isaiah 53 - Jews Or Christians?]
And it’s interesting that you seemed to have totally missed the point I was trying to make in my previous response when I made mention of Abraham (as you say above ‘I don’t understand why you believe’). Please tell me why Father Abraham believed, and I will tell you why I believe.
Peace.